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My lightbulb moment came a litle late after the recent challenge.
I often wonder if I had learned things differently would I have progressed faster or does it just take time to synthesize everything you’re exposed to. I’m still not sure but EP 356 goes a long way to putting it together.
EP 356 just came up in my YouTube feed and I realized this is one of Brian’s most fundamental lessons for mixing the major and minor pentatonic, I think it’s similar to what Garry showed in his August 2023 challenge.
I have long been trying to overlap major and minor pentatonics around roots of the CAGED system but it’s still been fuzzy. In EP 356 Brian distills CAGED down to the C, A and E major shapes showing that the C and D and the A and the G can be combined as one shape. He goes on to use these 3 major triad shapes on strings 2, 3 and 4. What I didn’t realize is that these are the larger, familiar landmarks I can use to know where I am and see the pentatonic shapes on either side arising from the roots. This is allowing me to mix the positions more easily to produce nice blues licks. I highly recommend the lesson.
I haven’t seen any other instructor point this out. Thanks, Brian, you are an amazing teacher.
John
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Hi John, congratulations on the lightbulb! That’s always such a great moment.
You inspired me to take a look at EP356. What a great lesson… call and response: triad, lick, triad, lick. Great way to tie things together. I’ve been pretty clear with the major pentatonic and root notes, but fuzzier with the minor. I had a small lightbulb moment with lesson EP530; the concept of using root notes to pivot between major and minor pentatonic scales. It still needs a lot of practice to solidify it though. Anyway, check out EP530 if you haven’t already. It should build on what you’ve already discovered regarding triads.Regarding learning paths, while some are more effective than others, I think it just takes time. There’s the rich geography of the guitar plus all of the music itself and learning to recognize the sounds we hear. It’s a lot however you approach it. I think the “quick” learners are the ones who can immerse themselves in it the best, without so many distractions that our lives typically offer. Most of us just have to do what we can, when we can.
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Hi Michael,
Pivoting to the major or minor pentatonic from a root, especially on the highest 3 strings is very much related to what I’m trying to do. I like the bigger landmark of the triad, that kind of grounds me in what position I’m in, and can work the roots from there. Limiting that to 3 simple triads instead of all 5 big CAGED shapes was the light bulb for me.
I agree, I think it takes time and looking at things from multiple perspectives before it all begins to sink in.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I’ll check 530. Was that Garry’s lightbulb EP?
John -
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Hi Charjo, Ep356 is always high on the recommended list for breakthroughs on CAGED but I didn’t realise that it could be for mixing minor and major pentatonic. Looking back on my info on it, I did not realise Position 2 had pattern 4 and 5 of the Minor scale and not a major and a minor. At the time I was more focused on triad shapes and CAGED across the fretboard. This lesson did help advance more on these 3 triad shapes that were covered with the basics in Ep199. I concur with Michael ep530 is a good one to check out as Brian combines the A and G shape overlap. In fact, Ep 356, Ep 530 and Ep 471 have common ground and are all in Key G. A pdf is attached to compare. Lightbulbs are part and parcel of the Active Melody journey, thanks for sharing.
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Hi Laurel,
If you’re referring to Brian’s zone 2 in Brian’s EP 530 attachment, that’s actually the “B.B. box”, the other sweet spot that can be used to mix up the major and minor (other than the typical box 1 area). Have a look at that zone 2 in relation to Brian’s lessons on the B.B. box.
John-
It was in reference to zone 2 in Ep356. Didn’t realise that it was a blend of patterns 4 and 5 of the Minor Pentatonic. Positions 1 and 3 are blending the Major and Minor Pentatonic. This added a new perspective on this lesson that I never saw when I first did it as it was all about CAGED at the time. So my take-away on this is, rather than seeing the major and minor blends in 3 positions of the fretboard, use a blend of 2 patterns from the minor as an alternative for position 2.
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Great find/share John! I have a question… You and Michael are referring to the ‘geography’ of the guitar neck. Points at which you mix major and minor pentatonic scales. My question is when to make the switch? I always assumed the start with the major (1 chord) and then move to minor (4th). Any thoughts? Thanks for sharing.
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I think that’s the common wisdom for a major blues, John, and sounds good but I guess it depends what kind of sound you’re going for.
I kind of see the options as straight minor pentatonic with blue note with note choices to fit the changes as much as possible; major over I, minor over IV (because the major 3rd of the tonic becomes the major 7 of the IV chord and sounds awful); mixed major/ minor over everything with avoidance of clashing notes; mixed major/minor with outside lines implying dimished chords or implied 2, 5, 1’s (not that I’m competent at this level).
The problem with straight minor pentatonic is that the major 3rd of the IV isn’t even in the minor pentatonic of the I ( it’s the 6th). Neither is the major 3rd of the V (it’s the major 7th). So I tend to want to gravitate to licks that are hybrid major and minor that include the major 3rd for the chord change and avoid the clashing notes. Those licks tend to follow the new chord shape and become almost the mixolydian with an added minor 3rd of each chord change in the progression. All the more reason to be able to see your triads and chord shapes.
John
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Hey All,
Just caught this thread! Yes, a great lesson and really helped me understand how close the three triads were to each other in different positions and how close the major and minor blues patterns were to these triads. If only I could use them and improvise ‘on the fly!’ 😉
Back to practise!
Garry 🥸🎸🥸
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Hey Charjo, thanks for posting this thread on your EP356 light bulb 💡.
Some weeks ago I suddenly realized the same about the C and D shape being so close together! But that lesson goes even further with connecting the major and minor patters with CAGED. It’s exactly what I am still struggling with – and the reason why I still can’t improvise “on the fly”🙂. Will take a bit time to learn and memorize, but you’re right that lesson is essential!🙏🎸
DeniseMore Blues!
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I think one of the problems is that CAGED is almost always presented and explained from a “chord” perspective only. I think this is a pity because the trees just hide the forest!
If you look at CAGED as the peculiar way in which ROOTS are located on the fingerboard, then it becomes a scaffold that ties everything together very neatly.
In the following visual we concentrate on the D and C “shapes” – anywhere on the neck. The nut is towards the left and the bridge is towards the right, as usually. (The visual is way less pretty than those posted by Laurel a little higher).
The first diagram only shows the positions of the roots in those D and C shapes. As you can see, there is one common note on the B string.
The second diagram represents the minor pentatonic scale with that “root” (tonic); the minor pentatonic scale is defined as T b3 4 5 b7 and of course it extends in both directions. If you know what a pentatonic scale is, you don’t need “pentatonic pattern numbers”.
The third diagram shows the major pentatonic scales starting on the same roots (tonics): T 2 3 5 6.
Still using the same roots, you can very easily picture the major and minor triads: (R 3 5) and (R, b3, 5) respectively.
Knowing the positions of the roots, you can also immediately spot the roots of the IV and V chords (and all the other chords as well, of course) and instantaneously build the corresponding triads.
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Thanks for putting the spotlight on it charjo, added it to my favorites. Wow, how did I miss that one?
While many of us know CAGED chords and their triads, and many of us also know the pentatonic scales in 5 positions, sometimes it feels like “never the twain shall meet”. Rudyard Kipling must have been a guitar player.
Bridging the two thought streams while playing up to speed is elusive. Once I’ve “jumped the triad” and hit a pentatonic lick I tend to get stuck there, trapped in noodling mode, killing time while gathering wits.
Oh boy it’s Friday again but I just wanna work on EP 356… 🤷🏼
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